| Part 1 Interview With Father Samir Khalil
Samir
By Annamarie Adkins
BEIRUT, Lebanon, 4 MARCH 2009 (ZENIT)
Confusion over Islam
among Christians and Muslims
may have peaked after Sept. 11, 2001, but many questions still remain.
That's why Jesuit Father Samir Khalil felt called to offer some
answers, as an Islamic scholar, Semitologist, Orientalist and a Catholic
theologian born in Egypt and based in the Middle East for more than 20
years.
The Jesuit priest teaches Catholic theology and Islamic studies at
St. Joseph University in Beirut, is founder of the CEDRAC research
institute and is author of, most recently, "111 Questions on Islam"
(Ignatius).
In this interview with ZENIT, Father Samir speaks about his
experience and efforts to build a mutual understanding between followers
of the two Abrahamic faiths.
Part 2 will appear Thursday.
Q: Why did you agree to produce this book?
Father Samir: Two reasons. It was a year before 9/11 that I started
discussing this topic with journalists, having interviews together. I
noticed a great ignorance of Islam in the West
Christians, non-Christians and nonbelievers.
In general, they had very poor knowledge of Islam. I thought I had to
clarify. Their ignorance pushed some of them to be aggressive and
negative toward Muslims. Some of them were very naοve, believing
everything they heard. Some even were using Islam to be aggressive
toward Christianity. All of that is a consequence of ignorance.
The second reason was to help Muslims reflect on their own religion
and faith. In a previous experience with Muslim youth in a Paris suburb,
I noticed they didn't know almost anything about their own religion.
Speaking with different Muslim people I met in Europe
in Germany during the summer, or in France where I teach, or in Italy
where I was living
it was always the same. Most Christians don't know their religion,
either.
I wanted to give good information about Islam to help people not to
have any false information or prejudice against it.
Q: How did the interviewers choose the 111 questions from the
thousands that could have been asked?
Father Samir: The journalists I worked with had a lot of questions
themselves, and questions from what people were asking them: about
violence; whether Muslims would accept Western civilization; and about
Muslims having problems with equality between men and women.
So, in fact, the questions are more directed to Western society so it
could understand Islam better.
Q: Do you think most Muslims would be satisfied by the objectivity of
your answers to the 111 questions? Why or why not?
Father Samir: My effort was to be objective; I tried, but you can
never truly reach a perfect objectivity.
Certainly, not everybody will be happy. Some think Islam is a violent
religion, or a religion against women; they will not be happy because
they will say I am not clear enough about the violence and inequality of
men and women.
People who think Islam is a religion of peace and equality between
men and women, and that Mohammed elevated the status of women, will not
be happy either.
Everyone has a position. Few people will be satisfied, if they are
against or for Islam.
But those who want to know something serious about Islam will be able
to make their own opinion, because they will have the facts in front of
them in my book.
Q: The introduction to the book notes that it is an attempt to foster
mutual understanding between Christians and Muslims. But many of your
answers paint Islam and its origins in a very negative light. How do you
think the average Christian's opinion of Islam will change after reading
the book?
Father Samir: I don't think it was very negative, or negative at all;
my intention is a better understanding. Not a feeling, but an
understanding
something that uses the head first, then the heart.
You have to first give serious information to promote dialogue and
mutual understanding. If I don't say the whole truth, the truth will
appear anyway, and the situation will be worse.
I am trying to build a mutual understanding, not built on compromises
and false information. Dialogue starts with serious, academic, honest
information about Christianity and Islam.
The answers are trying to be useful information; some answers are
negative because the point is negative.
I don't know what the average Christian thinks. Nowadays, I suppose
the majority has a negative opinion of Islam, before reading any book.
We, Arabs and Muslims, are in a crisis. When we Arabs
Muslims and Christians
speak together, we recognize we are in a bad situation. We had a
glorious time in other centuries, but now we are at the bottom.
I hope that the book will help people understand things that concern
them, like terrorism; there are some explanations, but not
justifications. I can't justify terrorism, but I can explain why others
are led to terrorist acts, I can also show that it has some support in
the Koran and the Tradition
sunnah.
Most Muslims choose peace and nonviolence. The 10% that chooses
violence is stronger than the 90% that doesn't. Sometimes the bad part
of humanity, though smaller, is stronger.
Q: Is a critical examination of Islam's history and sacred texts
that is, subjecting the faith to reason
even possible in the Muslim world? Why or why not?
Father Samir: Usually, in the Muslim tradition, faith is over
everything; it is above reason.
If you tell a Muslim the Koran says something, but the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights says something contrary, the Muslim will
say, "We have to follow God's words and law, and not the human rights
laws."
In the Christian tradition, we find more people interpreting the
Bible than Muslims interpreting the Koran. They had an interpretive
movement in the Islamic world in 9th, 10th and 11th century, but then
they went backward.
As for the relationship between reason and faith, today Muslims are
in a negative period of their history. Certainly it is possible to unite
the two, but they would have to work very hard. There are many reasons
for this regression, but fundamentally, there is ignorance on the part
of the Muslim clergy.
Part 2
Interview With Father Samir Khalil Samir
By Annamarie Adkins
BEIRUT, Lebanon, 5 MARCH 2009 (ZENIT)
Father Samir Khalil Samir, a native of Egypt and longtime resident of
the Middle East, says he does not fear Muslims.
Knowing their faith and knowing the Gospel, the Gospel cannot fear
the Koran, in his expert opinion.
The Jesuit priest teaches Catholic theology and Islamic studies at
St. Joseph University in Beirut, is founder of the CEDRAC research
institute and is author of, most recently, "111 Questions on Islam"
(Ignatius).
Father Samir spoke with ZENIT about his true concerns: indifferent
Christians who don't know their faith, and Christians who don't realize
that Muslim immigration to the West may be the perfect opportunity for
evangelization.
Part 1 of the interview appeared Wednesday.
Q: What are the most common preconceptions about Islam you encounter
among practicing Christians?
Father Samir: The most common preconceptions are rather negative:
Muslims are not modern people; they are not open to others; Muslims are
a violent group
things like that.
You find the same negative preconceptions when you hear what Muslims
say about Christians: They are unbelievers, pagans, immoral; they are
aggressive.
What you hear about the United States is also very negative: It is
imperialistic, it uses its power to dominate other people, etc.
This is common in humanity. Each one looks at the other from his
point of view and notices what is different, and the difference is often
seen as negative. As Christ said in the sixth chapter of Luke, verse 41:
Why do you take note of the grain of dust in your brother's eye, but
take no note of the bit of wood which is in your eye?
So, we have to learn that some differences are negative, some are
positive.
We have different approaches to many things. For instance, the
Trinity in our dogma is the deepest expression of communion with God
himself
he is loving and self-giving. But to Muslims, it is seen as something
awful: three gods.
It makes them think Christians are like the old pagans, seemingly
believing in more than one god.
Q: What question are you asked most often in your presentations about
Islam?
Father Samir: Mostly, I hear questions about whether a good Muslim
can be modern and faithful at the same time.
In Europe, especially in France, the question is whether Islam is
compatible with a secular society. Another question is whether Islam is
violent; this comes regularly. They wonder if this is something inherent
to Islam, or simply a problem we have today.
Q: Historically speaking, Muslim lands rarely revert to Christianity
or any other religion, and are generally intolerant of Christianity.
Today we see explosive Muslim population growth in traditionally
Christian lands such as Europe and North America. Should Christians fear
the growth of Islam? What is the proper Christian response to the
constantly expanding Muslim umma?
Father Samir: Muslims rarely convert to Christianity or other
religions
this is true. Even if we've seen in the last 10 years a change, in
Algeria they are making laws against conversion to Christianity. But
this does not stop the conversions.
The same is happening with less intensity in Morocco. In southern
Africa, there is much more conversion.
You can see on YouTube an Al Jazeera clip in Arabic about the
conversion of Muslims to Christianity. The response of the Libyan imam,
who is responsible for the propagation of Islam in Africa, was wondering
how to stop conversions to Christianity, saying that there have been 6
million Muslims converting to Christianity in Africa.
Why is Islam growing in Europe and America? Because Muslims have
children.
Recently, I met one of my former students, an Algerian Muslim, and I
asked him whether he had married and had children. He said he and his
wife had three children, but this was just the beginning of their
family. Meanwhile, you have Western people having one or two and saying
that it's enough.
What I fear really is the indifference of many Christians to their
own faith. You hear a lot of Christians saying that it doesn't matter if
you are Christian or Muslim or Buddhist, the main thing is to love each
other.
This is partly true, but you have to ask yourself, "How do we love
each other better? If I really am a Christian, and living according to
the Gospel, I will love better."
I don't fear Muslims. Knowing their faith and knowing the Gospel, the
Gospel cannot fear the Koran.
Q: Have you seen an increase in interest among Christians since Pope
Benedict's famous Regensburg address to gain knowledge and foster
dialogue with Muslims? Is the reverse true as well?
Father Samir: I think the famous address of Pope Benedict at
Regensburg was a very important step in the last decade.
The first reaction was very negative by Muslims; many Christians and
Catholics said it was a mistake. After a while, when all this noise
disappeared slowly, Muslims started to rethink it. Christians also
started to ask themselves why the Pope quoted this sentence from the
14th century.
We all started, Christians and Muslims, to reflect on what he really
said in this address. There was one sentence that was not wrong but
difficult to explain
because you have to go back to history
but the address was eight pages.
Many in the West then realized it was very positive, in fact, that
the Pope had put his finger on something very important. Faith is
disappearing in the West. Reason is emptied from its original Greek
spiritual meaning. People think if you can't prove physically something,
it doesn't exist. Now people are starting to reflect anew on faith.
In the Muslim world, the same thing happened. One hundred and
thirty-eight people, lead by Prince Al-Ghazi of Jordan, undersigned a
very positive letter in response to Regensburg
now 300 people have signed it, explaining that Islam and Christianity
have a common double principle: love for God and for neighbor.
Two years later, in November of 2008, we had a meeting to discuss the
issues brought up in the Regensburg address, with 30 Muslim and 30
Catholic representatives in Rome.
We had a wonderful discussion. It was not always easy, but very deep
and open-minded, each person making a great effort to hear the other.
The last day we had to write a common statement. We came to a point
at which it was impossible to go further
the conflict was so strong
dealing with the liberty of conscience.
Right before the end of meeting, before we were going to meet the
Pope, Cardinal Tauran, president of the Pontifical Council for
Interreligious Dialogue, said, "Unfortunately, I have to announce
something very sad; we couldn't reach a common agreement."
But a minute later, the great mufti of Sarajevo, imam Mustafa Ceric,
representing the Muslim group, came and said, "I have good news for you:
we agreed on point five dealing with the liberty of conscience." He
explained that it was found in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
and was undersigned by most Muslim countries, so there was no reason for
the Muslim representatives to refuse it now.
We made small steps for two days, and on the third day found
something to agree on.
We have decided to have a meeting every two years, one time hosted by
Muslims and the next time hosted by Catholics.
This is an answer to Regensburg, and it was a very positive one.
Q: What, in your experience, are the most fruitful ways for fostering
peace and goodwill between Christians and Muslims?
Father Samir: I as a Christian know that Muslims are loved by God.
God loves them. This is very important. They are not enemies, they are
not foreigners; they are, as sincere believers, members of our family.
Muslims are religious people essentially, because a good Muslim puts
God above everything else in his life, normally. The same should be said
for Christians, but I must recognize that often, in the West, Christians
don't put God above everything else.
When I have any encounter with a Muslim, I know if I appeal to
something religious in his and my life, we will agree. We will agree on
values because we say these are coming from God.
I know we are all brothers. This is not a simple assertion; it's
real. We are really brothers. We all descend from Adam. The intent of
Islam is to adore the only God, and they think they achieve the mission
initiated with Abraham through the prophets, Moses and Christ
and Islam in the achievement.
It's clear for me as a Christian that the achievement is in Christ,
because he is the Word of God. After God sent his Word, he cannot send
another word, the Koran, to correct or fulfill his previous Word,
Christ.
I disagree with Muslims that the Koran is the last word of God, and
that Mohammad is the "seal of the prophets." For me, the seal is Christ
and the Gospel.
Here we disagree, but this disagreement means a Muslim and I are
seeking the perfection of God. This is not bad.
There is no exclusion, but with one condition. I am convinced the
perfection and the achievement of perfection is in the Gospel, but I am
also convinced a Muslim is seeking the same aim and the same God.
In religion, deep belief fosters peace between mankind. That belief
does not foster exclusivity.
I am asking myself, "Why are Muslims spreading so much, are growing
in the Western countries? Why in Europe are there 15 million Muslims?
Would it be better if we didn't have Muslims there at all?"
The fact that Muslims are in North America and Europe means that they
are my neighbors. They can find a Bible and open it, and find Jesus
Christ. They can enter into a church; they can participate in prayer
with us.
The tragedy is when they don't find the real Christian who will help
them there.
In the past, we went over the ocean to convert Muslims and maybe it
was almost impossible. Now the Muslim is in my country, my neighbor, and
we don't do anything.
This is for me a pity. After all of our efforts for centuries to
reach the Muslims, God has sent us Muslims at home and we pass up the
opportunity of sharing the most beautiful reality we have, Christ and
the Gospel.
The presence of Muslims in the West is the greatest benediction we
could hope for. The question is whether we will open our heart and
receive them as our brothers.
I have a mission toward them, and they think they have a mission
toward me. They know the Koranic Jesus, and I have to show them the
evangelical Jesus.
This is our mission. It is something beautiful and should give us
more hope than anything else.
Everything is providential. There cannot be a very large movement of
Muslims in the world for only economic reasons. God is sending them.
Perhaps it's the best way for them to discover the true image of God
that God is love.
Our mission is to testify that God is love and only love.
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