| Part 1 Interview With Cardinal Tarcisio
Bertone After Mexico Visit
VATICAN CITY, 12 FEB. 2009 (ZENIT)
Proclamation of the Gospel is cultural creation, and Catholic
institutions must show that they can address progress and development
successfully, said the Pope's secretary of state.
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone was in Mexico from Jan. 15 to 19 to preside
over the 6th World Meeting of Families and to meet with Mexico's
president, Felipe Calderon Hinojosa, as well as with the representatives
of the world of culture.
On his return to the Vatican, the secretary of state gave a joint
interview to Vatican Radio, L'Osservatore Romano and the Vatican
Television Center, in which he evaluated his visit.
This interview was conducted by Carlo Di Cicco, deputy director of the
Vatican newspaper, and Roberto Piermarini, director of the news service
of the papal radio.
Part 2 of this interview will be published Friday.
Q: Eminence, your visit to Mexico seemed very different from your
previous ones. In addition to the fact that you took part as a papal
legate, it seemed to mark a new beginning in relations between the
Church, the Holy See and Mexican society. What actually happened?
Cardinal Bertone: It was a trip of a profound pastoral character
as papal legate for the 6th World Meeting of Families
and, of course, [it was] also political to have meetings with the
president of the republic and other authorities.
We must recall that Archbishop Dominique Mamberti also went recently to
Mexico on the occasion of the 15th anniversary of the re-establishment
of diplomatic relations, which was a great change in Mexico, a stage
marked in 1993 by Pope John Paul II on the occasion of his trip for
World Youth Day in Denver.
The secretary of state went to Mexico as papal legate but also as
secretary of state, which put the accent on these positive aspects. Not
that there is a positive secularism in Mexico
a
subject that was discussed later in the meeting of Queretaro
but yes, there are more positive meetings and relations between the
Church and the state.
There is a Church that is reassuming itself
a
martyr Church, which the Mexican [Church] is. It was an exceptional
occasion in which the Pope made himself present with two messages: his
recorded blessing and live transmission during which the joyful and
palpitating Mexican cry resounded: "the Pope is present."
It is a conviction that expresses the great desire for the presence of
the Pope, but also the sense of full communion and fellowship with the
Pope, the Bishop of Rome.
Q: Family and culture were the two most important points in all your
speeches. Why did you give so much attention to these topics?
Cardinal Bertone: Because in reality, the family is the first
transmitter of values and culture for the new generations; for children
and young people growing up, the family is the transmitter of values.
This is a proven fact in the experience of family life, despite all the
difficulties that mark the way, not only in Europe but also in Latin
America.
I recall a conference, a debate, that took place here in Rome, in the
Basilica of St. John Lateran, with Professor Barbiellini Amidei,
precisely about the family, regarding its capacity or incapacity to
address other instances of socialization in the task of transmitting
values.
In the end we agreed that the family is the first instance of the
transmission of values
and this is also the conviction of the Popes: of John Paul II and,
particularly, Pope Benedict, as taken up in the two messages addressed
to Mexico
the family is the first instance of human and Christian
formation.
It transmits the identity, the family's own identity, and the cultural
and spiritual identity of a people.
Then the state is born thanks to the grouping, the communion among
families, that is why the state should have the mission to strengthen
the identity of a people grounded in its roots, in its origins, which
later determine the development of both the political and ecclesial
community.
Q: In some way, you seemed to encourage a re-foundation of Mexican
Catholic culture. With what objective?
Cardinal Bertone: There are great cultural traditions in Mexico: there
are many universities and many educational institutions, and there is a
risk that these realities, which were reborn after the Church was given
a space of freedom, will remain in a corner.
There is a strong strain of secularism, there are forces which are
opposed to the Church, which oppose the Church's mission to educate and
form, the Church's function to develop culture.
But we must recall that the Church was the creator of the university;
the universities were born in the heart of the Church, and in Mexico
they say there are more than 2,000 universities, counting the state and
private ones, many of them Catholic, also belonging to religious
institutes.
It is an immense resource that must be tapped, so to speak, that must be
made present and active, so that it can influence the people's culture
and demonstrate
and herein lies the problem of the evangelization of the culture
that also universities of a Catholic nature or Catholic inspiration can
address science, make it progress and thus create new ambits and forms
of cultural development, precisely for the good of the Mexican nation.
That is why I sought to encourage and stimulate this type of
development.
Q: In the meeting with [people of] the world of culture and education
you emphasized the limited success that Mexican culture had during the
last century. Is it not a rather harsh judgment for a Church that
suffered persecution, including a bloody one?
Cardinal Bertone: It is, in fact, a question of harsh judgment. I
literally quoted an author, Gabriel Zaid, who remembers his meeting with
a European bishop who asked him: "Is a Catholic culture possible in
Mexico? Can the Catholic Church have some cultural influence in the
country?"
When this European bishop, more precisely this Dutch bishop, asked him
what could be expected of Mexico, Zaid, desolate, said: "I couldn't give
him any hope.
"In Mexico, beyond the vestiges of better times and popular culture,
Catholic culture has ended"
you must realize that we were in the 70s
it remained on the margin, in one of the most notable centuries of
Mexican culture: the 20th century. How could that happen?
Zaid replied
"I'm still asking myself that!"
This diagnosis is certainly pessimistic: I have taken it up again
precisely because there have been incentives, highly significant
positive aspects, so that it would be very unjust to stress the negative
and subscribe fully to this diagnosis.
Nevertheless, the writer's observation and the bishop's question require
an answer; they are stimulating.
That culture is necessary in the work of the Church, and even more so in
humanity itself, was affirmed by Pope John Paul II, in his great address
in UNESCO, when he cried out: "The future of man depends on culture! The
peace of the world depends on the primacy of the Spirit! The peaceful
future of humanity depends on love!" Thus he related peace, culture and
love.
For the Church, cultural promotion is an innate reality, written in her
DNA, in her history: It is an urgent and necessary imperative.
By the very fact that the Gospel is itself creator of culture, the
proclamation of the Gospel is cultural creation.
The truth is that the Church in Mexico was persecuted and gave many
martyrs. I received and venerated the relics of a 15-year-old boy, who
looked much more mature than his age, Josι Sαnchez del Rνo, who took
part in a cultural circle of Catholic Action.
Despite his young age, he was arrested, and after his capture he was
killed. Before dying, he wrote "Long Live Christ the King," which was
the cry of Mexican martyrs.
That is why Mexico's Church is certainly a martyr Church, but also
because of this she has been marginalized.
This Church has always practiced a great religion of worship, very
significant, source of her fidelity to Christ and of her enthusiasm for
the faith, but somewhat resigned from the cultural point of view.
That is why it was and is necessary to re-launch the whole of cultural
promotion that
as I said
is innate to the mission of the Church, particularly in Mexico.
Part 2
Interview With Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone After Mexico Visit
VATICAN CITY, 13 FEB. 2009 (ZENIT)Our Lady of Guadalupe signifies a
meeting and a unity between different cultures, inviting popular and
elite groups to come together in one nation, said the Pope's secretary
of state.
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone was in Mexico from Jan. 15 to 19 to preside
over the 6th World Meeting of Families and to meet with Mexico's
president, Felipe Calderon Hinojosa, as well as with the representatives
of the world of culture.
On his return to the Vatican, the secretary of state gave a joint
interview to Vatican Radio, L'Osservatore Romano and the Vatican
Television Center, in which he evaluated his visit.
This interview was conducted by Carlo Di Cicco, deputy director of the
Vatican newspaper, and Roberto Piermarini, director of the news service
of the papal radio.
Part 1 of this interview was published Thursday.
Q: Another point [you] touched upon was the necessary opening and
recovery of "mestizaje" [intercultural mixing that gives rise to a new
culture]. Is it not a concept that is needed not only in Mexico but also
in Western countries, where this concept is accepted with difficulty and
there is still a long way to go?
Cardinal Bertone: "Mestizaje" is a way of thinking, a very beautiful
reality that indicates the evolution of the culture, which is verified
through the meeting of cultures, a meeting that must not be exclusion.
In Mexico
but the same is true for other countries, for example, in the
West
the code of the culture is the Gospel and the Bible.
Nevertheless, in Europe and in the West, the cultural code, which is the
Gospel and the Bible, or better, its Christian roots, is occasionally
laid aside and discarded as a code of life, of experience and of
cultural evolution.
In Mexico, Mexican Baroque and the whole mestizo inspiration of the
Virgin of Guadalupe, are in danger of being divided by those who only
defend the indigenous culture and on the other hand, those who propound
a superiority
so to speak
of European culture, which would have done away with the roots, the
indigenous roots.
Because of this, we are at risk [of a] opposition between the indigenous
and European cultures, without a real dialogue and a synergy of the two
cultures, and a synthesis made by both that would form this new culture,
which is the characteristic of the Mexican people and of so many peoples
of Latin America.
This division, this enormous divorce, is the great divorce that occurred
between popular culture and the culture of the elites, so influenced by
European culture.
So, in the face of this divorce, the great Baroque and "mestizo"
synthesis is the sign of the identity of the Mexican people.
The division must be avoided and the synthesis taken up again between
the cultures through an effective, fecund and fruitful dialogue.
This dialogue is represented in Mexico by art, but also by that
mysterious, extraordinary presence that Pope John Paul II underlined in
the figure of the Virgin of Guadalupe, when he said that she is a symbol
of the inculturation of evangelization. Since the beginning of the
history of the New World, the "mestizo" face of the Virgin of Guadalupe
showed that there is unity of the person, within the variety of cultures
and in the meeting between cultures.
Q: What is your judgment on the meeting you had with the president of
the republic?
Cardinal Bertone: It was an extremely cordial meeting, I would say very
beautiful and very rich, which lasted just over an hour, an hour and 10
minutes.
It was a meeting with a Catholic man, who delivered a great speech in
the assembly of the World Meeting of Families, a man who has the will to
recover the Christian roots of Mexican culture, but who also asks
precise questions to the Church.
He underlined the relation between religion and life, the need for
coherence in belonging to the Catholic religion. Let's keep in mind that
87% of Mexicans, according to the most recent statistics, declare
themselves Catholic, but as in many places, unfortunately, the fact of
declaring themselves Catholic does not mean that they live in accord
with the Gospel and the indications of the Church.
That is why we spoke with great sincerity and touched on several topics,
such as the educational problem in Mexico, the topic of Catholic
schools, which constitute, I believe, 5% and, consequently, a very low
percentage of all Mexican schools; we spoke, therefore, of the problem
of instruction.
We also spoke about the teaching of the Catholic religion for the
integral formation of children and young people, and for the development
of their personality.
I gave as an example the agreement signed between the Holy See and
Brazil, which addresses this matter. It deals with an enormous Latin
American country, a modern country.
I was happy to greet all the members of his family, [his] three
children; one is called John Paul, probably in memory of John Paul II's
visits to Mexico.
Q: What conclusions have you come to on the Church in Mexico after your
meeting in prayer with the bishops, seminarians and faithful?
Cardinal Bertone: I think it is a very lively Church.
The Church in Mexico is not an institution in crisis; there is a
beautiful episcopate.
I met with the bishops, as I do on all the international visits and
trips I make. I had a very frank discussion also with them. I could see
a Church in growth, from several points of view, obviously with all the
difficulties of modern times and of the countries of Latin America: for
example, the problem of the aggressiveness of the sects.
However, it is about a growing Church, which gives a role to the laity,
and the laity have a great desire to collaborate, both in the ambit of
culture as well as business, typical of lay activity, and also in
politics.
They ask for guidance from the Church, encouragement and proposals in
order to participate together and share.
In only November of last year, the bishops held the meeting of the
episcopal conference with the participation of 120 [members] of the
Catholic laity, well-prepared and well-intentioned and, for that reason,
able to collaborate and reinvigorate the presence of the Church in
Mexican society.
Vocations continue to be numerous, the seminaries continue to be
crowded, though with different numbers from one diocese to another, but
there are dioceses with hundreds of seminarians.
The problem of formation is still to be resolved, but it is a question
of an immense strength. Keep in mind that Mexico has 92 dioceses, so
that Mexico can be a missionary source for neighboring countries.
Q: Your interventions and those of Benedict XVI had a singular harmony,
as two instances of the same theme of the colloquium with the Church in
Mexico. What does that mean and what is the objective of this harmony?
Cardinal Bertone: I must first say that the Holy Father knows Mexico's
Church very well, as the episcopal conference and consequently the
bishops of Mexico, came on their "ad limina" visit a few months after
the election of Benedict XVI, who, as he does in all visits of this
type, prepared himself in detail.
He studied the reports provided by the dioceses, by the nuncio and by
the episcopal conference, having a specific dialogue with each bishop.
This allows, of course, taking the pulse of the life of the Church in a
specific country.
Moreover, the Pope's first collaborator is perfectly in tune with him.
Of course the secretary of state knows the Pope's speeches and prepares
himself for these trips in harmony with the interventions and topics
that most concern the Holy Father and the Holy See.
The topics of the family and culture, especially during the meeting in
Queretaro with the world of culture, are topics that the Pope has very
close to his heart.
We know quite well the articulation of the Holy Father's thought and
that is why it isn't difficult to be in tune with his thought: to
support the bishops, the Catholic world and the Mexican laity in this
full and concrete communion, not only through prayer, but with the
affection, also public and enthusiastic, of the Holy Father, while at
the same time sharing the cultural and pastoral projects that interest
him.
I tried to encourage this great Catholic country
this was the objective
to be an attractive country, a model country for Latin America and the
Caribbean, above all because of its strength, its extraordinary
resources, as it has great human wealth and ample material, moral and
cultural resources.
Because of this, Mexico could be a spearhead for the rest of the
countries of Latin America. This is the hope that I would like to
formulate after my trip to Mexico, and which I place at the feet of the
Virgin of Guadalupe.
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